15 responses to “Truly Self-Publishing by Dan Marvin”

  1. Michael N. Marcus

    You seem to be making a few mistakes.

    (1) If Lightning is printing your books, they’ll be available at Amazon, B&N. Target and maybe two dozen bookseler websites around the world without you doing anything. With all of that exposure, you certainly don’t need to bother with Lulu. How many book buyers will go to Lulu instead of Amazon? Maybe one? Maybe none.

    (2) If you use Amazon Advantage you waste money. Stay away from it. Let Lightning ship books to and for Amazon. Get out of the warehousing and shipping business. Lightning will even supply cover artwork and your product description to Amazon.

    (3) There is no need to order 50 books from Lightning or anywhere else, except for gifts or review copies or if you want to sell some in person or from a website. Lightning specializes in Print On Demand. Let them handle the logistics for you. You don’t even pay for shipping on orders from Amazon customers.

    (4) You said you’re still waiting for a book to show up on Amazon. Something is very wrong. I’ve self-pubbed three books with Lightning, and have never waited more than about 30 hours for a book to be available on Amazon after I approved it with Lightning.

    (5) You said it cost you $105 to set up a title with Lightning. You must have spent some extra money somewhere, because the proper price (for a paperback and a digital file) is just $75.

    (6) You said it takes Bowker 10 days to send ISBNs, but you got yours in three days. You can pay for extra-fast service, but I paid the regular rate and got mine in three days like you did.

    You really should do better research before you give advice. You seem to be wasting time and money.

    1. Ivor Thomas

      Mr Marcus, You sound like you know your stuff re self-publishing. I am having no luck finding an agent for my ms and am contemplating self-publishing with companies like Raider and Athena Press, but clearly there are a thousand ways of going about it. Indeed, so many that I hardly know where to begin. Any suggestions?

    2. MEMO

      Hi Michael.. and others.. I try to find out best way to publish one’s things.. I try to register at Lighting and does anyone know why Lighting does have templates like LULU? This would make it much easier to keep it there way. I think there are to much about how to make the right pdf.
      But great to hear other’s experiences at POD places.

      M

  2. Joanna Penn

    Hi Dan, I agree with you that publishing yourself is a better idea. But for those of us who want to publish on Amazon.com in the US, but are not US residents, we have to use an intermediary like “Published by Lulu”. If you know of any way round this, I would be interested to hear about it!
    Thanks, Joanna

  3. shannonyarbrough

    Michael-

    Dan didn’t give misinformation. He simply stated the steps he took to publish his own book. The six steps you list don’t “correct” any of his info; they simply restate different options to the same scenarios.

    -Shannon

  4. Dan Marvin

    Thanks for your comments! Michael, I’m giving advice exactly because this whole journey has been a learning experience and I was hoping to save others time and money. The $105 covered the $75 setup fee and the $30 first copy they overnight to you to approve which is mandatory for your first book.

    Since I wrote this, my books have indeed shown up on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and many other sites. I have also placed copies in 6 local bookstores which would not have happened had they not been available through Ingram. When I was talking about the lag with Amazon, that was when I was trying to distribute them myself, with LightningSource it was automatic and quick.

    Bowker says it takes 10 days, it took me 3 but it may take you more.

    Joanna, LightningSource has distribution in the UK as well, they should be able to distribute your book depending on where you live. However, you would use a different source for your ISBN numbers as it varies by country. It may be that Lulu is a better bet in your situation.

    Best of luck with your books!

    Dan

  5. Linda Welch

    Hi Dan,
    Very interesting article and I’m sure of benefit to those who wish to be their own publisher. But I am puzzled by your statement “If Lulu publishes your book, they have the rights to your book.”

    According to Lulu: “Lulu holds no rights or copyright on your work and makes no claims or restrictions on the ownership of your work. Rights and copyrights remain with you as the author and creator. You continue to own the rights in your name or, if you have arrangements, on behalf of others. Your purchase and use of any Lulu services does not undermine your rights or copyright. ”

    My understanding is that Lulu owns the ISBN and will be listed as publisher, but does not own the rights to the book. An author can publsh the same book with a different ISBN if they wish. In fact, I’ve seen this on Amazon.

    Ciao,
    Linda

  6. Dan Marvin

    Hi Linda,

    Also a valid point, perhaps I over-simplified it. Anything you write, as soon as you write it, becomes yours and you own the copywrite. What would have been more accurate to state is that once Lulu publishes your work, they act as a third party between you and the stores that sell it. Their policies dictate things like percent markup (55% which is standard), returns (none allowed, big oops), and if stores like Amazon have an actual book in inventory or sell it only as a special order.

    Seriously, I’m not knocking Lulu, they offer a great service, letting you get your book on Amazon and Barnes and Noble without investing any money. Still, I wanted to walk into my local bookstore and find my book on the shelf and I couldn’t do that through Lulu. Also, the price I had to charge and still make $1 a copy made it very expensive through Lulu. Remember, they make their money off of your work. You don’t have to pay them their cut if you do the publishing yourself.

    Good discussions, and important clarifications from everyone. Feel free to post more comments or questions and I’ll do my best to answer them.

    Dan

  7. Kristen Eckstein

    I’ve read this article and all the comments. I must say, Dan, you have done what many authors are afraid to do – take your book’s future into your own hands to find a better way. Congratulations!

    Many authors are trying to find the “easy” or “cheap” method to just get their book in print. They forget things like distribution, marketing, and all that entails (including good content, cover design, wholesale discounts, and the like).

    As a self-publishing book coach, I have seen 20+ authors go through the same exact thing you have. In fact, I’ve always had a weird feeling about Lulu, and the more blogs and author experiences I read, the worse that feeling gets.

    Frankly, if you’re willing to let Lulu take control of the sales, distribution, and cost of your book, by all means use them. However, always remember, you get what you pay for. With Lulu, you may not be paying now, but you sure will be paying later! Especially when you get that coveted Barnes & Noble booksigning, and they call you to cancel because they refuse to buy books without at least a 45% discount AND returnable condition. With Lulu, unfortunately if your book sells well you will be paying a lot more later than if you just forked out the money to do the job right the first time. I’m not saying Lulu isn’t “right” for some, but there are enough cons I’m finding to using them that I’d only recommend them as a last resort. Or for a test-run book if you’re just trying to test the market.

    As a book designer, I feel Lulu intentionally misleads authors into thinking they can sell their work without a professionally designed book cover. Not to mention a professionally edited manuscript! Friends and family will buy just about anything, but the average customer still judges a book by its cover.

    For these and many other reasons I have felt compelled lately to write this article. Dan, thank you for your post. You’ve given me some more personal insight into the inner workings of Lulu.

    -Kristen

  8. Sequoya Willis

    I appreciate this article and the remarks from everyone! I am in the process of having my book editted and I was unsure of the right self publishing route to take. I almost made the mistake of going with Lulu because of the ISNB price. However, I too want to see my book in book stores when I walk into them. Thank you everyone!

  9. Gina Magini

    Thank you so much for this article and all the informative comments. It captured my interest because I have just published my first book on lulu. I chose to go this route with this particular book because I felt this book is too outside the mainstream to appeal to traditional publishers. Nonetheless, it is not probably a route I will take on future projects. I have been fairly happy with lulu, but you brought up many points I never considered.
    In the future, your advice will come in handy.
    -Gina

  10. Gina

    A newbie here: can people order single issues that will be shipped to them from Lightning source? I am assuming they don’t have a webpage like other pod’s do (Createspace and Lulu) where you can send people to buy your books. If I set up my own webpage for people to order the book will Lightningsource ship say a single book to them? And if so how would I link up the my webpage to Lightningsource to do this?

    There is a cover generator with the ISBN number where they ask for the price.. how do I determine the price. I didn’t see a price calculator (for my fee, Lightning sources fee and retail mark up) on the website so how do I know what to put on it? I’ll need more information on all of these details so that I can figure out the price to put on my back cover…. how do I do this or get this information?

    P.S. if my book is 7×10 and it’s a graphic novel that I want to print all the way to the edge, what information do I put in for trim etc.? It is exactly how I want it right now at 7×10…

    Thank you! Gina

  11. Gina

    I was actually looking at CreateSpace first and I had wanted to go with them until I discovered they have a 100MB upload limit. Unfortunately since my work is a graphic novel it is all artwork and compressing it to the smaller size seriously compromised the quality. I wrote them and discovered that there was no way around this problem. I was then looking at Lulu, however when the calculated retail cost was over 22 dollars for a 46 page graphic novel (similar to comic book), I couldn’t see selling that to people. That price is to high for what the product is. That’s why I started looking at LS and have the questions I do about them (see my previous post). I wish I could take parts of all of them and put them together to get my needs met : )
    Gina
    http://www.nanogirl.com

  12. DB

    Hello All, so basically if I buy my own ISBN number I can use Lulu and it will be under my publishing name not there’s??

    Also was on Lightning source and as a newbie i’m not sure of how to upload sizes ect can I work out the kinks on LULU then bring it back to Lightning source or CreateSpace?

    thanks DB

  13. Edward G. Talbot

    Hmm, I’m surprised no one’s mentioned CreateSpace. Their rates are competitive with Lightning Source if you pay their $39 annual fee to get discounted per copy rates – which pays for itself after ten copies. And since CreateSpace is owned by Amazon, it’s the easiest way to get a book on Amazon AND Amazon only takes 40% for CreateSpace books. Like Lulu, you can provide your own ISBN or get one from them and they will be considered the publisher.

    As near as I can tell, if I expected the majority of sales, or even a significant number of sales through brick and mortar stores (pretty unrealistic for 99% of self-published works) , I’d go with Lightning Source, because of their distribution.

    if I expected the the majority of sales to be handled in person or on my own web site, I’d look at LightningSource and CreateSpace and figure out the best deal – probably Lightning Source, but it depends on the specifics.

    If I expected most of my sales to be through Amazon – and this is the reality for the vast majority of self-published works – then CreateSpace is a no-brainer because this is the scenario where Amazon takes the smallest cut.

    The only scenario under which Lulu makes sense financially as far as I can tell is if for some reason you want to print without an ISBN, which the other two do not allow.

    Now, I should note that CreateSpace customer service has some mixed reviews, while Lightning Source does little or no hand-holding. Possibly that are non-financial reasons to use Lulu, or to make choices for different reasons than I have outlined above. I have heard varied opinions about print quality, but nothing definitive. And of course I have outlined three distinct scenarios, while yours may some combination of the above. But you will not sell enough more books by being on the Lulu store to make up for the major price difference, so if you’re going with lulu, you need to have a different reason.

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